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Old 14 Jun 2012, 06:46 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Top mount intercooler

Hi I live in perth, in the swan area
And an chasing a top mount intercooler to replace my current front mount,
Just seeing if anyone has any suggestions as where to buy them, what brand to buy and all that sort of stuff aswel as personal experience with k&n filters.
Thanks x
I have a 2000 gc8 wrx
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Old 14 Jun 2012, 07:52 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

Welcome

This is possibly one of the best systems to use :- WRX Performance


as for K&N,have had one fitted to all my motors owned,never had any problems
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Old 14 Jun 2012, 08:36 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

why do you want to replace your front mount with an inferior top mount?
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Old 14 Jun 2012, 08:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

Well i have a front mount at the moment, and i do not see the need for it, the only real benefit of one is no heat soaking. on the downside its more weight in your engine bay, turbo lag(granted that can be reduced with a good tune but who has the money right ), and if your in a front end crash well shit there goes your intercooler. besides i dont race my wrx so its pointless for me, i want the extra pickup a top mount gives you.
Also my K&n filter has brought a problem into my MAF Sensor, being told by my mechanic im needing a new one has just sparked my thought to get rid of all that unneccisary stuff.
Has anyone else had these thoughts or problems?
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Old 14 Jun 2012, 11:43 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

1> First off it depends on what the specs of the car are, 300 or above and front mount will allow a bit more tweeking on the map to improve power.
2>Lag caused by a front mount is a myth (you been looking at scoobynet? lol).
3> Running it not setup corectly front mount or not is a very bad idea
4> additional weight is negligable
5> you planning on crashing? lol, if your hitting it hard enough to do that much damage then intercooler is lowest worry.
6> Setup correctly the pick up will be the same once on boost
7> Maf's on 99/00 are weak as fook so will go front mount or not (mine went through 3 brand new ones when being mapped for new turbo before being sacked off in favour of autronics)

Hopefull pulled out all the points you mentioned. Top mounts are simple bad, there a piss poor place to put an air cooler or any cooler for that mater. Impreza's arn't the most areodynamic of cars so once you hit about 50 ish the airflow is ballooning up over the top of the scoop anyway so the top mount gets limited air, keep going faster and eventualy it will det because inlet temps.

High inlet temps caused by heat soak when sat in traffic can destroy your engine if you don't let it cool down before giving it the beans. (thread on here somewhere about a guy saying his car was extreamly slugish after being stuck in trafic, thats heat soak)

Theres alot of myths floating round about front mounts casuing lag (funnily enough coming from folks who sell uprated top mounts) and i've even seen some people try to calculate the lag. Some of the calculations are funny as, i'm yet to see anyone who accelertes at a constant 3000rpm.

To be scientificly true, yes they do cause a slow down in the boost build time, however your talking in 2 decimal places of a second so you will never notice it unless you get a data logger and sensor. Initial off the line in first they do tend to lag the turbo a bit, however thats from low revs which turbo's lag anyway, once rolling they make no difference. Theres a great great tag line, if you wanna go, drop a cog and boot it lol.

Alot of inherant initial lag is actulay casued by other factors, i noticed it on mine when i had a front mount fitted, but i went from a TD04 to a vf34. The increase in turbo is actualy where the lag comes from, TD04's spool extreamly well due to having small wheel but lacks the top end punch and the boost drops off, vf34 is slower spooling low down, but has more top end. No way round physics im afraid lol

example of mine

TD04 no front mount



VF34 with front mount






The second one shows boost, tails off slightly but not huge amounts, you still get drop off at the end, no where near as much on the bigger turbo. What you can see if the power comes in higher up the rev range on the bigger turbo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Subaruis View Post
Well i have a front mount at the moment, and i do not see the need for it, the only real benefit of one is no heat soaking. on the downside its more weight in your engine bay, turbo lag(granted that can be reduced with a good tune but who has the money right ), and if your in a front end crash well shit there goes your intercooler. besides i dont race my wrx so its pointless for me, i want the extra pickup a top mount gives you.
Also my K&n filter has brought a problem into my MAF Sensor, being told by my mechanic im needing a new one has just sparked my thought to get rid of all that unneccisary stuff.
Has anyone else had these thoughts or problems?
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Old 15 Jun 2012, 04:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

Welcome to the org mate

you not racing so i wouldn't worry about smashing it yet you wan it to run faster but your degrading it.

what power and how much boost are you running. TDO4 is a smallist turbo you shouldn't be feeling any big lag at the right boost.

if its a cone filter your probably sucking more hot air through that. if its a element in the air filter box its better. a revers vent in the bonnet might help as well for the front mount.

i don't really see any point in replacing it with a top mount you wont gain more power. The lag is hardly noticed, unless you got other mods including decat and its had no remap in the first place then yes it will lag.

but it doesn't necessarily mean your front mount is causing it or the weight lol.

it could be your fuel and air not right It’s important for the air and fuel to burn right to get good results and for that you will need a remap.

and if it has had a remap with these mods on previously it still wont run right if you are turning it back to stock power with taking all the mods of.

you will need a remap ether way or a normal stock ecu.

I WOULD LOOK AT SOME OF THE COMMENTS MADE BY EVERY ONE AND MAY BE SAVE FOR THE VERY LITTLE LEFT TO DO.

Nice set up Tidgy big difference with the vf not a bad lbft for the rpm a little more all most in to red line. what other mods are you running.



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Old 15 Jun 2012, 08:35 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

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Originally Posted by ccsworks View Post
Nice set up Tidgy big difference with the vf not a bad lbft for the rpm a little more all most in to red line. what other mods are you running.

what am i not? lol

Suspension all round (shocks, springs, roll bars, anitlift, etc etc etc), 6 pot front brakes, ppg gearset, vf34, autronics, oil cooler, front mount, full decat and load of other bits and bobs lol

its struggling a bit with fueling and inlet pipe is prob a bit too small so should crack 350 ish once thats sorted, im way close to the limit of the standard engine though. its dropped a tad on power since that was done, down to 327 so might be starting to show its age or inlet pipe is starting to collapse a bit
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Old 16 Jun 2012, 03:11 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

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Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
what am i not? lol

Suspension all round (shocks, springs, roll bars, anitlift, etc etc etc), 6 pot front brakes, ppg gearset, vf34, autronics, oil cooler, front mount, full decat and load of other bits and bobs lol

its struggling a bit with fueling and inlet pipe is prob a bit too small so should crack 350 ish once thats sorted, im way close to the limit of the standard engine though. its dropped a tad on power since that was done, down to 327 so might be starting to show its age or inlet pipe is starting to collapse a bit

Did you mean the turbo inlet pipe. Did you originally have a tdo5 or you still using the stock inlet pipe on the vf they known to crack have you tried the silicone ones a bit of a job changing them lol.

What cc injectors 440 or 550 or over? If they been upgraded did you upgrade the fuel rails as well?

440cc with 3bar of fuel pressure 320bhp. 440cc with a fuel pressure regulator at 3.5 bar of fuel pressure 346bhp.

550cc with 3bar of fuel pressure 400bhp. 550cc with a fuel pressure regulator at 3.5 bar of fuel pressure 432bhp.

Stock internals i wouldn’t go to crazy most of the ones i get coming in are hitting around the 330ish mark but depending on the use it just cuts the life limit of the engine the Cast pistons expand out because people wouldn’t go a little extra with the supporting mods like the oil cooler number 3 cylinder bangs out.

As long as you get the oil and filter changed around 3000 miles your ok the problem starts when people keep topping the oil up and it just gets burnt in the engine clogs the filter up with gung and it ends up blocking the oil cooler cores with poor circulation in the engine.

Am gathering some bits and bobs at the moment for the v limited i got standing as a project doing a similar set up but might go forge as you always end up going mad on bhp any way lol

might go a bit crazy and do the TGV deletes as well take the rods butter fly’s out and weld ,polish them in side. Might even use the sti block some of the internals come forged apart from the pistons. I got a 20g tdo6 lying around was gona use that with supporting mods or a vf series but need to get everything right might put up a thread when i got all the bits.

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Last edited by ccsworks; 16 Jun 2012 at 03:16 AM.
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Old 18 Jun 2012, 07:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccsworks View Post
Did you mean the turbo inlet pipe. Did you originally have a tdo5 or you still using the stock inlet pipe on the vf they known to crack have you tried the silicone ones a bit of a job changing them lol.

What cc injectors 440 or 550 or over? If they been upgraded did you upgrade the fuel rails as well?

440cc with 3bar of fuel pressure 320bhp. 440cc with a fuel pressure regulator at 3.5 bar of fuel pressure 346bhp.

550cc with 3bar of fuel pressure 400bhp. 550cc with a fuel pressure regulator at 3.5 bar of fuel pressure 432bhp.

Stock internals i wouldn’t go to crazy most of the ones i get coming in are hitting around the 330ish mark but depending on the use it just cuts the life limit of the engine the Cast pistons expand out because people wouldn’t go a little extra with the supporting mods like the oil cooler number 3 cylinder bangs out.

As long as you get the oil and filter changed around 3000 miles your ok the problem starts when people keep topping the oil up and it just gets burnt in the engine clogs the filter up with gung and it ends up blocking the oil cooler cores with poor circulation in the engine.

Am gathering some bits and bobs at the moment for the v limited i got standing as a project doing a similar set up but might go forge as you always end up going mad on bhp any way lol

might go a bit crazy and do the TGV deletes as well take the rods butter fly’s out and weld ,polish them in side. Might even use the sti block some of the internals come forged apart from the pistons. I got a 20g tdo6 lying around was gona use that with supporting mods or a vf series but need to get everything right might put up a thread when i got all the bits.

you can never be happy doing your own car in my profession.



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TD04 standard, mines an my99 uk turbo, so still on the origional inlet pipe, getting on 15 years old now so prob getting to the stage of needing to be replaced lol

Still on the 440's and standard fuel pressure reg, it maxed out fueling at 342bhp before its dropped off, was 4 years ago i had the turbo and front mount etc fitted mind you.

yeah 350 is pushing the limit thats for sure, but if worst comes to the worst then an excuse to go bigger hehe

I had hot oil temp issues with mine for some reason, was seeing 105 degrees C on the motorway before i backed off and that wasn't that uncommon, had the oil cooler on for 6 years now and kept the temps nicley down so i'd realy recomend one once you go over 300 ish.

lol, yeah always tempting to go more, although where you say enough is prob budget limited rather than anything else.
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Old 19 Jun 2012, 01:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidgy View Post
TD04 standard, mines an my99 uk turbo, so still on the origional inlet pipe, getting on 15 years old now so prob getting to the stage of needing to be replaced lol

Still on the 440's and standard fuel pressure reg, it maxed out fueling at 342bhp before its dropped off, was 4 years ago i had the turbo and front mount etc fitted mind you.

yeah 350 is pushing the limit thats for sure, but if worst comes to the worst then an excuse to go bigger hehe

I had hot oil temp issues with mine for some reason, was seeing 105 degrees C on the motorway before i backed off and that wasn't that uncommon, had the oil cooler on for 6 years now and kept the temps nicley down so i'd realy recomend one once you go over 300 ish.

lol, yeah always tempting to go more, although where you say enough is prob budget limited rather than anything else.
Thanks bud this is what its all about more brains are all ways better to make the right decisions in improving engine and what not to go crazy on depending on the goal looking to achieve on the bhp. if my budget allows me might go for the sti block and forge it other wise will do a slimier set up to what you got on a wrx engine will see what i can get my hands on no rush at all. am winning on the labour side so it wont cost me any thing but a little spare time.



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Old 19 Jun 2012, 07:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

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Originally Posted by ccsworks View Post
Thanks bud this is what its all about more brains are all ways better to make the right decisions in improving engine and what not to go crazy on depending on the goal looking to achieve on the bhp. if my budget allows me might go for the sti block and forge it other wise will do a slimier set up to what you got on a wrx engine will see what i can get my hands on no rush at all. am winning on the labour side so it wont cost me any thing but a little spare time.



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carefull what you buy, standard sti block on classics isn't closed deck so will be the same as uk one.

closed decker is the way forward
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Old 20 Jun 2012, 02:05 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

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carefull what you buy, standard sti block on classics isn't closed deck so will be the same as uk one.

closed decker is the way forward
Been waiting last 6 months for the closed deck some lads in Ireland i know who import in the very early RA models normally pretty badly smashed and on cat b pretty cheap and was hoping they would come up with some thing but no luck yet.

Had one of them some time back and it was worth every penny as the car was mostly smashed on the roof and the side but had every thing in it with the engine starting this engine was fully forged including the pistons they won’t cast.

I had a shell which cam my way the chap used it for track day and he had stripped and sold every thing else of it he gave it to me for next to nothing with the paper work and i build the complete car with the smashed one it ended up costing me around £5000 at the time sold it after 8 months for £13000 couldn’t say no to the money i was getting back.

Was getting a Sami closed from a new age but can’t make my mind up. If am looking serious power and high boost with strengthened block closed deck it is. I don’t mind waiting. But they pretty hard to come by.



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Old 20 Jun 2012, 01:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

how high you going? power wise that is
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Old 21 Jun 2012, 02:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

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how high you going? power wise that is

all depends on what engine i get hold of.

I got a bug eye for daily drive with ppp with a TD04 that i use as a daily car.

I got a hawkeye JDM /vf37 twin scroll 450bhp which i use on a day off and moslty for going out.

and i still got the wrx 2.5 x. police car still cant seem to find a d25 head.

the v.limited i got was mostly for track use but has been standing over a year because i cracked the block up no piston/big end or crank damage every thing is fine just the block is tiered.

this is the reason why i wanted the closed deck engine and its really pointless getting one unless its going over 500hp. its more for a 1/4 miler. i know the transmission might be a problem but if its out of the same car it might be ok.

do you think it would be a good idea to through an auto transmission in it if i cant get the 6 speed box and diff.?

and would it pull 3RD gear on the dyno ? or would it just drop back in 2nd on throttle how would they do this would it be possible to work the tourqe and ratio.?

this is one of the reason why i wanted to get an earlier RA at least it has every think in it including the ecu.

the other 3 cars i cant really afford to abuse them on the track as they worth a bit of money so just take a few local shots on a bad day lol.

if i cant get a closed deck then i would probably strengthen a wrx engine and hit around the 350 mark similer set up to yours.



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Old 21 Jun 2012, 07:05 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Top mount intercooler

Biggest issue will be gearbox, iirc mikey prefers a 5 speed to a 6 speed ratios wise but i have been there while they have been discussing ratios and diffs etc etc lol

500+ will need a closed decker, some folks have got away with going that high on a 2.5, but i also know a couple that have shat themselves.

Quote:
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all depends on what engine i get hold of.

I got a bug eye for daily drive with ppp with a TD04 that i use as a daily car.

I got a hawkeye JDM /vf37 twin scroll 450bhp which i use on a day off and moslty for going out.

and i still got the wrx 2.5 x. police car still cant seem to find a d25 head.

the v.limited i got was mostly for track use but has been standing over a year because i cracked the block up no piston/big end or crank damage every thing is fine just the block is tiered.

this is the reason why i wanted the closed deck engine and its really pointless getting one unless its going over 500hp. its more for a 1/4 miler. i know the transmission might be a problem but if its out of the same car it might be ok.

do you think it would be a good idea to through an auto transmission in it if i cant get the 6 speed box and diff.?

and would it pull 3RD gear on the dyno ? or would it just drop back in 2nd on throttle how would they do this would it be possible to work the tourqe and ratio.?

this is one of the reason why i wanted to get an earlier RA at least it has every think in it including the ecu.

the other 3 cars i cant really afford to abuse them on the track as they worth a bit of money so just take a few local shots on a bad day lol.

if i cant get a closed deck then i would probably strengthen a wrx engine and hit around the 350 mark similer set up to yours.



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